Some Drama For You!

[vianegativa]

I'm posting this because I like to see people know the truth of things, and frankly because I'm 200% past caring.

Here is the debacle between Charles (cabearcub) and I. I'm posting this publicly so he can see and so everyone knows the attempts at manipulation I've been receiving in my mail box of late.



Charles' Response to traderbear's post in my lj:

"I am not sure I know exactly what to say. If you think that I responded inappropriately in your journal, that is one thing; but I was completely and totally offended by what traderbear said to me. Since it was on your journal, I can't help but assume that he was including you into that group that just reads my journal for the drama and "tale of woe".

I consider that an ULTIMATE violation of trust. If you really read my journal for that reason, I want to know. I would have never gotten that impression of you; but he pretty much indicted you on those charges. If you don't do as he said, it's important to me for you to publicly disagree with him that you yourself do not do that.

If you cannot do that, then I have to either assume that you really DO what he says, or don't care enough about me to take a stand on it.

I don't think I have ever violated your trust in me reading your journal. I don't think I have ever been disrespectful of your feelings or what you write. If I have, you have never called me on it. I made my comment yesterday because I wanted to know where you were coming from. I want to know if my interest is not welcome.

Thanks
Charles"

The following is an AIM conversation later that night:

Devilbair: Charles.
Devilbair: This is vianegativa.
CABearCub: hey there..
CABearCub: will you do me a favor?
Devilbair: Possibly.
CABearCub: will you read my original post again and tell me at least ONE adjective that i used to describe traderbear? I attacked what he said. I never said that HE was despicable. I never said that HE was shallow......I said that "what he said" was despicable and shallow
Devilbair: First.
Devilbair: Trader was wrong.
CABearCub: i didn't call him names, I didn't judge anything about his life or how he chooses to live it. I called into question what he specifically said about his motivations for reading my journal, and that he said that 'several' others do as well
Devilbair: He meant to do something to shake you out of a stupor he feels you're in, and it came out like bilious garbage.
Devilbair: Did you just read what I said to you?
CABearCub: that he was wrong...yes, i knew that.....I am responding to your comment that you feel like i have been attacking him personally and trying to get others to do the same thing
Devilbair: Ok, stop right here.
Devilbair: Putting up his pic & a caption of what was said IS trying to get people to dislike him.
Devilbair: Subconciously or no.
Devilbair: It was a complete escalation of him saying something cruel.
Devilbair: I got your e-mail Charles.
Devilbair: Have i not been supportive of you?
Devilbair: Have you had your LJ used as gossip at a bar Charles?
Devilbair: I have.
CABearCub: there was nothing subconcious about it....I posted his pic and name and his comment because his comment was exactly what the post was about. Please tell me anywhere where I told anyone to flame him or hate him, etc......I even said subsequently that my purpose was to have the people he was referencing to open say that they didn't feel the same way
Devilbair: Thank you for putting me in that category.
Devilbair: It was an ultiimatum Charles. You're not an idiot, you know this.
Devilbair: It was essentially saying "look what he did!"
Devilbair: You KNOW this.
Devilbair: You know LJ is a public forum.
CABearCub: no, my journal entry was a friends only post
Devilbair: Charles you have 96 plus friends.
CABearCub: and of course i posted that to say 'look what he did'
Devilbair: That's public.
Devilbair: Yes.
Devilbair: Why?
Devilbair: Why did you need to continue it?
CABearCub: no i don't, I have 63, most of which don't even read it, and the rest apparently already knew
Devilbair: To feel better? To feel justified that it was a stupid comment?
Devilbair: Ok, 63 is STILL public.
CABearCub: BECAUSE not only did he say he only reads my journal as a meas to make fun of me, he said several others do too
Devilbair: He cruelly zinged you. You fell for it.
Devilbair: Do you think I make fun of you?
CABearCub: because he and I have several LJ friends in common, and he PURPOSELY said that
Devilbair: Please be honest.
Devilbair: Do you know I yelled at him?
Devilbair: I told him he was cruel & foolish?
Devilbair: The man is my BOSS, and I still told him that.
Devilbair: Yet, here is your e-mail.
Devilbair: Essentially calling me a puppet.
Devilbair: Now, YOU justify to me:
CABearCub: do I think you talk about me to him? before he made that comment, I wouldn't have said so, now, I am not 100% sure....you read my journal....do you think it's easy for me to be that vulnerable, and to trust people to at the very least not use the information against me. he was on my friends list. i trusted him.....and then I find out that he thinks that all I am is a drama queen and laughs at my misfortune with other people that i trusted
Devilbair: HOW DARE YOU?
CABearCub: he basically accused you of doing so, yet, you are mad at me
Devilbair: He accused people, not me directly.
Devilbair: You know that.
CABearCub: he said several others....and he knows you guys personally....it's not a stretch
CABearCub: I sent you an email specifically because i DIDN'T want to believe that you'd do that
Devilbair: You know, obviously YOU haven't read my journal, or know me AT all.
CABearCub: i didn't send an email to anyone else
Devilbair: I'm honest to a fault.
Devilbair: I'm going to say this once.
Devilbair: And then I'm going to end this conversation.
Devilbair: I did not read your journal to mock or harass you.
CABearCub: i wrote my email to you, and I didn't accuse you of anything, i even said that I have never gotten that impression that you would do that
Devilbair: I did not read it to ridicule you. I don't really have the time.
Devilbair: CABearCub: he said several others....and he knows you guys personally....it's not a stretch
Devilbair: That's not an indictment?
Devilbair: Ok, Charles, here it is:
Devilbair: He was wrong. He said brutish things with the intention of shock-value that came out as muckracking.
Devilbair: It was wrong.
CABearCub: to my knowledge you never let me know before now that you DIDN'T disagree with him, and then you go out of your way to defend him on my journal.
Devilbair: DID I HAVE TO BEFORE?
Devilbair: Right, well, I think the best solution is that you remove me from your friends list.
Devilbair: Since I haven't proven my trust.
CABearCub: you look at my journal entry and see it as a big attack on him......I look at the comments and see an attack on me
Devilbair: Ok, stop.
Devilbair: Try listening.
Devilbair: You CONTINUED the attack. You answered blow with blow.
Devilbair: And genxcub was a rabid jerk for you.
Devilbair: Your post incited derision on from other for him on your behalf.
Devilbair: you didn't THINK that someone would attack him? You know better.
Devilbair: You were both wrong.
Devilbair: Sorry, you don't get moral superiority on this.
CABearCub: if i didn't trust you, why would i send you an email or even try to discuss this with you? I responded to what i thought needed a response from me......Bill responded because he wanted to....I didn't have anything to do about that...that's like saying I should blame you for what traderbear said to me yesterday
CABearCub: i'm not asking for moral superiority
Devilbair: AND you attacked tirronshadow who was trying to explain what he may have meant.
CABearCub: in fact, i've said it twice now in my journal that i didn't want that
Devilbair: You DID blame me for TraderBear in your e-mail.
CABearCub: no, i responded to Lee....you don't know my relationship with Lee, so please don't assume you understand what and why I said what i did to him
Devilbair: Since it was on your journal, I can't help but assume that he was including you into that group that just reads my journal for the drama and "tale of woe".

Devilbair: Thats from you, incidentally.
Devilbair: Look, Charles, remove me from your friends list.
CABearCub: yes, i know what was written...I didn't blame you for anything.......
Devilbair: Not over TraderBear, not over your reply, but over the e-mail.
Devilbair: Oh, and you want a public denoument of me reading your journal as gossip fodder? Fine.
CABearCub: that's fine, if you can read that email, and see it as an attack on you, then nothing I can say is going to make a difference. I have always been open to talking about anything...you are now telling me that you want to cut everything off.....just remember that you are the one walking away
Devilbair: You basically accuse me of violating your trust on an issue I myself have written SCORES over... were you expecting roses?
Devilbair: Did you read ANY of those posts?
CABearCub: if that was what you got out of my email, i am sorry, that was the opposite of my intent
CABearCub: if it counts for anything, i wrote that while I was VERY upset and everything was very fresh.
CABearCub: you are upset that I would have any doubt whatsoever about your intentions, but right now, you can so easily cut me off because we disagree
Devilbair: No, I can so easily cut you off because you're saying I'd do something that caused me GREAT pain.
Devilbair: You're calling me a liar & hypocrite, essentially.
CABearCub: is what I said in that email more important than what I am telling you right now?
Devilbair: Well, gee, I don't know. The anger is "fresh", as you put it.
CABearCub: i am telling you right now, that when i read his comment, i was the most hurtful thing I could think of having said to me. Then, when he said several friends agree, i went to his user info page and looked at the name he and I had in common....bold names of people I care about, and i couldn't help but to wonder if what he was saying was true
CABearCub: looking back, I would say, of the possible people he was referring to , you'd be the last I would have suspected....you have commented and shown concern when I was feeling really down...something that most don't do.....
Devilbair: I understand your shaken foundations. More than you know, apparently.
Devilbair: That is NO reason to react like you did. You essentially made a baseless accusation.
CABearCub: when you feel like you've been betrayed, it's hard not to lose a little trust in everyone....
CABearCub: it wasn't baseless to me at the time
Devilbair: Ever been accused of Rape?
Devilbair: Ever been lied about?
Devilbair: Ever had your LJ discussed at a bar as entertainment?
CABearCub: accusing someone of rape is a public thing...lying is too
CABearCub: most likely, yes, at the same bar yours was
CABearCub: if what traderbear said was true
Devilbair: No, because the person doing it isn't on your friends list.
Devilbair: Not at the same bar... its irrelavant.
Devilbair: Anyway, I know EXACTLY how you feel.
CABearCub: i'm not asking you or anyone else to condone how I reacted to what happened
CABearCub: I don't think that I did the same thing that traderbear did. If i had left his name and picture out of the post, would that have made everything better?
Devilbair: Honestly, yes.
CABearCub: well, then that is where I got selfish and wanted people to know exactly who hurt me. I never denied wanting that....frankly, I am tired of allowing others to be rude to me, and me opting not to call them on it
CABearCub: but like I said, for me, what he did was the most hurtful thing someone could do to me... I would have rather been raped
CABearCub: because I feel like I was

[Edited at the request of CABearCub; personal info irrelevant to the matter at hand]

Devilbair: Look, Charles. I need to go. I have to think these things over.
CABearCub: ok
Devilbair: It doesn't matter; I'm through it.
Devilbair: In the big ways.
CABearCub: still..
Devilbair: a lot has happened to me Charles.
CABearCub: well, you can go....i'm sorry if my email hurt you...you say you understand where I am coming from, I hope that is true...even if you don't agree with how i handled it..
Devilbair: Someday I'll put it in LiveJournal
CABearCub: or at some point, you can just tell me, if you want
Devilbair: I mifght sometime, provided things become less tense. Have a good night
CABearCub: ok, night
______________________________________________________________________________________

I later recieved a comment Charles posted in Traderbear's journal FROM TraderBear. After that, I asked he leave me out of this.

I then replied to cabearcub's e-mail with this:

"Charles,

Please don’t be offended by my choice to leave your friends list, but to be blunt I’m falling into my own depression and cannot afford anymore time with this feud between you & Trader Bear. I’ve told him not to bring it up with me or in my journal, and I think it’s best I leave your journal for a time given your lack of trust in me and my growing need to avoid such debacles as that which recently happened.

Please have a Merry Christmas, and I wish you well."

To which I received:

"Well, I AM offended by you leaving. Trust is earned; and I was willing to stick by you. You posted about not wanting just pat superficial communication, but your actions prove otherwise.

You of all people should know how hard it is to develop and maintain friendships that are genuine. We both know that you are taking me off your friends list in order to appease traitorbear...he just told me as much. Either he is lying to me, or you lied to me about being involved with what he did, and then tried to make me feel guilty about questioning you. I don't appreciate that.

Thanks for proving to me that I trust people way too soon, and that if you are any indication, most people on live journal and online are liars who have their own interests at heart. You are no better than me, and you have the nerve to judge me, then turn your back on me.

I am sorry you are dealing with your own depression. I hope that what you did to me helps you to feel better about yourself. I can understand you aren't allowed to be my friend and work for traitorbear, and by all mean, your job is more important. Have a nice life."
_____________________________________________________________________________________

This is the whole sorry mess, in gory details. I don't believe at this point in letting anything but the utter truth be shared. The facts are these:

TraderBear did not ask me to do anything.
I have never tried to be anything but a friend to Charles.
I have never made sport of his journal.



And lastly, I'm tired of this drama, and WILL NOT play this game. My piece has been said; I'm not going to deal with this any further, nor make comment on what has passed. I'll let others do that for me.

I am beyond over this.

Comments

that image is beautiful!

[henare.livejournal.com]

and oh-so-appropriate, too!

Amen.

[vianegativa.livejournal.com]

Thank You.

Trader tried to do a good thing and it came out horribly. Consequently I think he HAS enjoyed the baclash, but at least he's let it die off. I can understand CABearCub's anger, but DAMN. I feel like I'm bak in 6th grade with someone telling me,"if you're HIS friend, you can't be mine."

Yes, Trader said some terrible things, but frankly I'll err in his favor since he never made any manipulative demands of me. My first reaction to anyone who does that is to drop them, and I frankly even took time to see if anger was clouding my judgement.

It wasn't.

[grande.livejournal.com]

dear god.

[ex-braxton253.livejournal.com]

Mein gott, how immature can people (specifically Trader and Charles) get? Yes, Trader's first comments were uncalled for but Charles going toe to toe with him was just as uncalled for. Funchords had it right by envisioning this as an episode of Jerry Springer but I saw this as more of the queeny version of the school bully versus the smartassed know-it-all. and after those two knock it off, at least one of them looks for bloody martyrdom.

Is this what happens when people grow up? or do they ever really evolve past these kindergarden states?

bah.


How're you doing Matt?

oy...

[vianegativa.livejournal.com]

I've gone from furious to amused to just damn tired of it all. I feel likr Michael Corlleone in the Godfather Part III:

"Everytime I try to get away, they pull me BACK IN."

I'm done.

And actually...

[vianegativa.livejournal.com]

Trader has respected my boundaries when I told him I didn't want to be involved.

No More Power Deficit!

[vianegativa.livejournal.com]

DUDE,

The "old" Eubie could've powered the friggin EAST COAST off of this drama. Don't people ever just learn to drop things?

Am I insane here? I was trying to be even tempered, and I get skewered. Joy.

Re: No More Power Deficit!

[jss]

No good deed goes unpunished, silly. You should know that.,

Re: No More Power Deficit!

[vianegativa.livejournal.com]

You know, I'm just going to start eating people I kill hitchiking. People'd be less touchy about it.

eating !?

[wldcatxx.livejournal.com]

your gonna start eating people hmmmm.. Yeah baby you put the grrrr in swinger !!! how about eating me ...awww damn cant we all get along!!

[jwall.livejournal.com]

Why manufacture such a long conversation for that non-person?